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I've read a
few things (emphasis on FEW  ) and
they all reach the conclusion that the men/mer of Tamriel use the
name of Akavir for the Tsaesci - Lizard Folk- ...yet from what I've
seen released, most moders and gamers out there use it to describe
some kind of Oriental (chineze features). Both for clothing/armor
and new races.
Are they talking about the extinct Men of
Akavir come to haunt Morrowind or something I don't know about ?
(..
at least not yet  )
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Yes, most of
us here are fairly certain that the men of Akavir were Oriental. if
you talk to the smiths in the gamer about katanas, wakizashi and
tanto, all of which are traditional Japanese weapons, they'll tell
you that they come from Akavir. Akavir is obviously a continent like
Tamriel, and therefore the Elder Scrolls version of the far east.
It's made up 3 or 4 little regions, or so it says in Mysterious
Akavir. Also the name for the good Monkey race of Akavir is Asian.
The Tang Mo.
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Quote:
if you talk to the smiths in the gamer about katanas,
wakizashi and tanto, all of which are traditional Japanese
weapons, they'll tell you that they come from Akavir.
See, confusing!...
In
a certain book a Snake-Man used wakizashis and spears in a fight
against the Emperor's son. His father said the young boy fought in
traditional Akaviri style.
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| Disciple |
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I would say
most modders don't know what they are talking about. 
To
me it takes more than some weapons to make me think the extinct men
of Akavir were Oriental. Besides I think the Tsaesci created those
weapons and not the men the once killed/ate. Thats not to say there
isn't some Asian influence in Akavir, but I don't think its
Tamriel's version of the far east.
--------------------
The 4th of First Seed - Dusk and
Dusk
Keeper of the Gate to Oblivion
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Akavir had men
in an Early Era. It's other denziens (snake-men, monkey-men,
dragons) killed the humans.From the in-game book Mysterious
Akavir:
"There are four major nations of Akavir: Kamal,
Tsaesci, Tang Mo, and Ka Po' Tun...
Kamal is "Snow Hell".
Demons live there, armies of them...
Tsaesci is "Snake
Palace", once the strongest power in Akavir (before the Tiger-Dragon
came). The serpent-folk ate all the Men of Akavir a long time ago,
but still kind of look like them...
Tang Mo is the "Thousand
Monkey Isles". There are many breeds of monkey-folk, and they are
all kind, brave, and simple...
Ka Po' Tun is the
"Tiger-Dragon's Empire". The cat-folk here are ruled by the divine
Tosh Raka, the Tiger-Dragon. After the Serpent-Folk ate all the Men,
they tried to eat all the Dragons. They managed to enslave the Red
Dragons, but the black ones had fled to (then) Po Tun."
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...especially
since the Redguards (at least while they were still on their own
continent) seem to have had a culture very much like the japanese.
They had warlords (the famous Yokuda), sword-singers, even some of
the events have equivalents in japanese history (such as the
"sword-hunt"). And if Frandar Hunding is not Miyamoto Musashi I
don't know who is. He
even wrote the same book (Hunding's "Book of Circles", Musashi's
"Book of Five Rings").
--------------------
He who
despises himself nevertheless esteems himself as a self-despiser.
-- Friedrich Nietzsche
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*coughs and
points discreetly at the Pocket Guide to the Empire*
"After
the assassination of Reman's last heir by the Dark Elven Morag Tong
during the disastrous Four Score War, control of the Empire reverted
to the Akaviri Potentate. They have left a visible mark on the
Empire of today. The high crafts of daikatanas and dragonscale armor
came from Akavir, as did the banners and military dress of Septim's
shock troops, the Blades. The Red Dragons that have come to
represent the Empire and the Imperial City were originally Akaviri
war mounts. Akaviri surnames are rare and prized possessions among
the Cyrodilic citizenry of today, and there are trace facial
features of the Akaviri in many distinguished Cyrodilic families.
Some colonies of "true Akaviri" still exist in both the Empire and
its border regions, but they are named so only for their practices
and customs than for the purity of their blood."
Somehow I
don't think the Tsaesci would have taught the men of Tamriel how to
make daikatanas. More likely, they would have eaten the men.
--------------------
Member of the Forum Scholars Guild
Member of Greater Dwemer Ruins, Modder in charge of Nchuleft
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There are
Akaviri humanoids, but there is no visual representation of them
made by bethesda- that anyone has seen at least.
What
TSBasilisk just typed alludes to the Akaviris in the Empire breeding
with other races, most notably the Imperials.
Whether they
look Oriental is hearsay and could be true or not. They might look
like martians for all we know.
Nazz doesn't seem to think
"Asians are in the equation" hehe.
My question is why not?
Just about every other race- save the Arabic and Indians(American
and Hindi)- are represented.
Any lore you find will not tell
you one way or another so until an actual bethesda employee comes
around to tell us, no one can say anything as a fact.
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Quote:
Somehow I don't think the Tsaesci would have taught the men of
Tamriel how to make daikatanas. More likely, they would have eaten
the men.
I don't understand your point here
TS. The section you quoted from the Pocket Guide directly attributes
Akaviri influences upon Imperial culture to the Tsaesci - under the
Akaviri Potentate during the interregnum.
--------------------
Dean of The
Theoretical Whirling School Of Vivec
The Whirling School | Academy for Dwemer Studies | TES Lore FAQ
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A Tsaeci DID
rule Tamriel for a period.
but the bottom line is stated
again and again. WE DONT KNOW.
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Quote:
There are Akaviri humanoids, but there is no visual
representation of them made by bethesda- that anyone has seen at
least.
Any lore you find will not tell you one way or
another so until an actual bethesda employee comes around to tell
us, no one can say anything as a fact.
 ...Ok
Hope
someone out there from Bethesda hears this
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here is a
picture of what I think they might look like
another one
--------------------
To
respect nature, you must come to know her. If you ignore her, the
Earth has a way of getting even with you. I am one of those ways.
A soildier is less than a peasant, for they only destroy.
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That's the
Tsaesci; we're talking about the Akaviri men.
--------------------
Member of the Forum Scholars Guild
Member of Greater Dwemer Ruins, Modder in charge of Nchuleft
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Actually IIRC
there was some lore that stated the Tsaeci faces resembled the
facial features of humans. Whether it's true is beyond me.
I
remember that they were stated to be beautiful as well.
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Quote:
A Tsaeci DID rule Tamriel for a period.
.
but the
bottom line is stated again and again. WE DONT KNOW.
Sorry? We don't know what...
whether there are any remaining Akaviri humans, or whether the
primary (possibly only) influence of Akaviri culture in Tamriel has
come from the Tsaesci?
With regard to the continued
existence of Akavari humans, the available lore is pretty clear;
they are all gone.
With regard to the predominant influence
of Akaviri culture in Tamriel, the lore is also pretty clear; such
influences came from the Tsaesci.
What is so confusing about
this?
I would sooner prefer to answer the title question
of this thread.
When the people of Tamriel talk about the
Akaviri, they are usually talking about the Tsaesci, since the
serpent-folk are the Akaviri race that the people of Tamriel have
had the most direct experience of.
--------------------
Dean of The
Theoretical Whirling School Of Vivec
The Whirling School | Academy for Dwemer Studies | TES Lore FAQ
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We don't know
what the humanoid peoples of Akavir LOOKED LIKE. More specifically-
if they look Asian.
The original post asked if they were men
or snakes. Tsaesci are referred to as snake-like, golden-skinned,
beautiful and vampiric.
Quote:
With regard to the continued existence of Akavari humans, the
available lore is pretty clear; they are all gone.
Please post some sort of quote
for this, as I have not seen it. I dont mean to suggest you are
wrong, I just haven't seen such lore.
And I have read that
the Tcaesci have Oriental features. Can you confirm or deny this?
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Quote:
I would sooner prefer to answer the title question of this
thread.
When the people of Tamriel talk about the Akaviri,
they are usually talking about the Tsaesci, since the serpent-folk
are the Akaviri race that the people of Tamriel have had the most
direct experience of.
That's what I said...
But than WHY do all modders look at me like I'm some
Nine-headed-jelly-thingy-from-Mars whenever I tell them I want the
basic/real/most-commonly-known Akaviri race in a plugin...???
I
just thought I was missing out on something. Sorry if my other
questions weren't very clear or to the point...
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Quote:
Quote:
With regard to the continued existence of Akavari humans,
the available lore is pretty clear; they are all gone.
Please post some sort of
quote for this, as I have not seen it. I dont mean to suggest you
are wrong, I just haven't seen such lore.
"Who doesn't live in
Akavir- It might be worth noting once again that Akavir had a few
residents that no longer live there. The Men that originally lived
there were all consumed by the Serpent folk of Tsaesci. The Dragons
(Both red and Black) were also destroyed by the Serpent men, but
this time in a war that occured between Tsaesci and Ka Po' Tun. "
Aldrien's Chalice
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And just to
quote the source:
From Mysterious Akavir, "No Men or Mer live
in Akavir, though Men once did. These Men, however, were eaten long
ago by the vampiric Serpent Folk of Tsaesci."
The reason
modders take the liberty of calling their Asian influenced plugins
"Akaviri" is because alot of people would like to see an Asian race
in The Elder Scrolls, and since a couple weapons that are Asian in
nature come from Akavir they all decided to just name whatever Asian
inspired plugin they created "Akaviri". As far as I can tell thats
really about all there is to it. And yeah the Akaviri are definately
snakes, though I would say they have some fairly human features too.
--------------------
The 4th of First Seed - Dusk and
Dusk
Keeper of the Gate to Oblivion
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As far as I can tell thats really about all there is to it.
Ok, Thank you all.
mOrGaNa
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lochnarus
Quote:
We don't know what the humanoid peoples of Akavir LOOKED LIKE.
More specifically- if they look Asian.
I agree with this. 
There is no indication *anywhere* as to the specific
appearance of Akaviri humans. Any attempt to describe their
appearance is purely based upon speculation.
Quote:
The original post asked if they were men or snakes. Tsaesci
are referred to as snake-like, golden-skinned, beautiful and
vampiric.
Quite so. And I have explained
that, in common Tamrielic usage, the race indicated by the term
"Akaviri" *is* the Tsaesci, who dominated the political and cultural
stage of Cyrodiil for nearly nine hundred years, during the
interregnum or Second Era.
Quote:
>>With regard to the continued existence of Akavari
humans, the available lore is pretty clear; they are all gone.
.
Please post some sort of quote for this, as I have not
seen it. I dont mean to suggest you are wrong, I just haven't seen
such lore.
From Mysterious Akavir;
"No Men or Mer live in
Akavir, though Men once did.
These Men, however, were eaten
long ago by the vampiric Serpent Folk of Tsaesci.
Had
they not been eaten, these Men would have eventually migrated to
Tamriel."
This text is quite clear. If Akaviri humans were
not extinct, they would have migrated to Tamriel but, since they are
all extinct, none did so.
That doesn't rule out the
possibility that Bethesda could add a basis for humans of Akaviri
origin in the future, but, in the meantime, the available lore says
they are all dead.
Quote:
And I have read that the Tcaesci have Oriental features. Can
you confirm or deny this?
There is no specific information
of the appearance of Tsaesci features.
There is only a bare
mention that the Potentate Versidue-Shaie had a "narrow face", which
would be consistent with the fact that he was a serpent-man, IMO.
His son, Savirien-Chorak, is described in 2920 as "a glistening ivory-yellow eel".
BaByQuEeN_mOrGaNa
Quote:
But than WHY do all modders look at me like I'm some
Nine-headed-jelly-thingy-from-Mars whenever I tell them I want the
basic/real/most-commonly-known Akaviri race in a plugin...???
LOL.
I would agree with Nazz on this point, most modders either
know little about TES lore or choose not to allow lore to interfere
with their modding creativity.
The fact that there is no lore available to support the
existence of Akaviri human survivors should not, and does not, stop
modders from inventing human races and calling them "Akaviri". IMO,
this is fine, but I would like to see them create a plausible
background for their new races, if they intend them to comply with
lore. I would also like to see Tsaesci; I think CON3 may introduce
Tsaesci. 
Quote:
I just thought I was missing out on something. Sorry if my
other questions weren't very clear or to the point...
No need to apologise, your question
seemed quite reasonable to me.
--------------------
Dean of The
Theoretical Whirling School Of Vivec
The Whirling School | Academy for Dwemer Studies | TES Lore FAQ
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It would be
cool to know if the Tsaesci had legs or just a serpent tail. Because
if all Akaviri denizens that were purported to be asian could easily
be modified to be Tsaesci.
I'm saying that there could be a
compromise between the theories that are popular.
Tall
Asian-faced vampiric golden snake-men.
Sounds like a good
mod.
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We have it on
very good authority that the Akaviri humans were Asian in
appearance, and that there are still humans with Asian "Akaviri"
features in Tamriel.
It's amazing to me how many people on
these forums like to slap down modders and their mods! If you want
the Tsaesci, make your own mod.
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Any reference
supporting your statement that the akaviri human are asian-faced? As
far as I know there is no text referring them has asian feature.
True that the Japanese weapons come from Akavir, but then I
couldn't say that the men of Akavir were asian. I agree with
Shadow_of_Talgor that Yokuda shares the Japanese culture as well.
The name of Maiko the Cartographer of Stros M'Kai or Gaiden Shinji
are sounded asian for me, and their culture has Japanese feeling in
them. Still Redguard has no asian facial traits, so it's not fair
for Akaviri men to judge them have asian feature, unless devs said
so.
I am not trying to slap people here, just stating the
facts. For the modders, they have their own creativities and may do
as they want with the lore and the world. The world is open, and
devs has opened the door with tescs.
Edit: Ah okay then,
perhaps bethboys have already talked about this topic. Allerleirauh
pm-ed me. There's reference. Can't say much since Allie doesn't say
much on this.
--------------------
~Xayah Ayem Neht
Librarian at The
Imperial Library
Member of The
Forum Scholars Guild
Edited by
Xanathar (05/04/04 05:27 AM)
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So I guess the
rest of us don't get to know what this "good authority" said.
typical.
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| Nigedo |
| Diviner |
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Quote:
It's amazing to me how many people on these forums like to
slap down modders and their mods! If you want the Tsaesci, make
your own mod.
No-one was 'slapping down'
modders. Merely stating that the creation of mods that add Asian
type humans have no basis in present lore. 
Quote:
We have it on very good authority that the Akaviri humans were
Asian in appearance, and that there are still humans with Asian
"Akaviri" features in Tamriel.
Fine, if you have evidence,
produce it. Otherwise, the available lore says no such thing
in either case.
--------------------
Dean of The Theoretical Whirling School Of Vivec
The Whirling School | Academy for Dwemer Studies | TES Lore FAQ
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Quote:
I would also like to see Tsaesci; I think CON3 may introduce
Tsaesci.
Nigedo, if it's not too much ...
Could you pls tell me when and if it's done? Or at least
where.
mOrGaNa -- seriously hoping Allerleirauh didn't
think me rude, but someone DID say I was parralel and after all I
was the "Nine-headed-jelly" in the story.
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| Nigedo |
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Quote:
Nigedo, if it's not too much ... Could you pls tell me when
and if it's done? Or at least where.
The post where the Tsaesci were
mentioned is here although, unfortunately, the pic that was
there has gone now.
Check
out their website:- http://www.con3.co.uk/
They have a massive
team (including me doing some dialogue editing ) so
production is going quite quickly afaik. Just keep an eye on the
their website and the Mods Forum for updates, or do a search for 'CON3'
from time to time.
--------------------
Dean of The Theoretical Whirling School Of Vivec
The Whirling School | Academy for Dwemer Studies | TES Lore FAQ
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Thanks.
I'm
already looking into it.
mOrGaNa
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Quote:
Quote:
It's amazing to me how many people on these forums like to
slap down modders and their mods! If you want the Tsaesci, make
your own mod.
No-one was 'slapping down'
modders. Merely stating that the creation of mods that add Asian
type humans have no basis in present lore.
Quote:
We have it on very good authority that the Akaviri humans
were Asian in appearance, and that there are still humans with
Asian "Akaviri" features in Tamriel.
Fine, if you have evidence,
produce it. Otherwise, the available lore says no such
thing in either case.
I've got to agree with
Nigedo here...
Just coming in here and saying that you know
they exist because "good authority" said so, then not even
explaining the who/what/where/when/why or even replying to our
collective questioning is not cool. I don't mean to offend anyone in
this forum, but you shouldn't have said it in the first place, you
must know we would ask where you got this info...
Maybe
that's why you posted after all.
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| Nazz |
| Disciple |
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Oh come on
Allie, you should know better than that. You know the lore very
well, and because of that should know that from what we, and by that
I mean everyone but apparently you, what we have said is correct and
that from our point of view modders are taking some creative
liberties.
I never said, nor do I recall anyone else saying,
that they had a big problem with them doing this, we just didn't see
it as being correct from a lore point of view. If you would kindly
share with us what you know then I would glady retract my former
critisisms.
--------------------
The 4th of First Seed -
Dusk and Dusk
Keeper of the Gate to Oblivion
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One of the
female *human* Imperial heads (b_n_imperial_f_head_02) has a
definite asian feel to it. We're also told that Akaviri have bred
with Cyrodils, IIRC. A case might be made of Akaviri having asian
features. Whether or not they're human...
--------------------
In the debating chamber of his mind
a dozen emotions got to their feet and started shouting. Relief was
in full spate when Shock cut in on a point of order and then
Bewilderment, Terror and Loss started a fight which ended only when
Shame slunk in from next door to see what all the row was about.
—Terry Pratchett, The Light Fantastic
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| Xanathar |
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Hey Nigedo, in
fact MK once had said that Akavir is oriental version of Tamriel. Here is my old ICQ log between me and MK looong
time ago. I just remember it, dig my old archive and found that log.
Still there's no reference about asian-face-traits in
Akaviri men. But since he said it's oriental, I think it's quite
safe right now, thinking that they are asian faced.
Edit:
um... I forgot to say that I edited the nickname. I didn't use Xan
as my ICQ nickname, and MK didn't use MK as his nickname as well.
Just for easier reading. And please don't laugh my old questions.
--------------------
~Xayah Ayem Neht
Librarian at The
Imperial Library
Member of The
Forum Scholars Guild
Edited by
Xanathar (05/04/04 08:20 PM)
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| Nigedo |
| Diviner |
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| Reged: 05/29/03 |
| Posts: 2586 |
| Loc: Deep beneath Vvardenfell
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Quote:
We have it on very good authority that the Akaviri humans were
Asian in appearance, and that there are still humans with Asian
"Akaviri" features in Tamriel.
I should add though that the
implications of your comments are quite exciting.
I
would be very pleased to see some of Rhedd's handiwork in TESIV and
the addition of Akaviri humans to the campaign world would be a
welcome development in TES lore, IMO.
--------------------
Dean of The
Theoretical Whirling School Of Vivec
The Whirling School | Academy for Dwemer Studies | TES Lore FAQ
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| Nigedo |
| Diviner |
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| Reged: 05/29/03 |
| Posts: 2586 |
| Loc: Deep beneath Vvardenfell
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Quote:
Here is my old ICQ log between me and MK looong time ago. I
just remember it, dig my old archive and found that log.
Wow! Thanks Xan. There's some
interesting stuff in there, especially the point about Temple
Zero.
MK does actually say quite clearly there that the
Akaviri humans are all dead. He also makes it clear that, although
Akavir is influenced by real world oriental cultures, it is as much
a fantasy creation as any other part of TES, so it doesn't follow
that what is true of Asia will be true of Akavir in all
cases.
We must wait to see how the present developers will,
well.. develop the lore.
--------------------
Dean of The
Theoretical Whirling School Of Vivec
The Whirling School | Academy for Dwemer Studies | TES Lore FAQ
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| Nigedo |
| Diviner |
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| Reged: 05/29/03 |
| Posts: 2586 |
| Loc: Deep beneath Vvardenfell
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Quote:
We're also told that Akaviri have bred with Cyrodils, IIRC. A
case might be made of Akaviri having asian features. Whether or
not they're human...
Quite reasonable points Niobe.
As I see this, the logical assumption is that Cyrodiils and
Tsaesci interbred during the interregnum. I can recall two texts
that have a bearing on the interbreeding between these two races.
The first, Notes on Racial Phylogeny and Biology, appears to
suggest that the biology of Tsaesci is incompatable with humans and
interbreeding between Tsaesci and homonid races would be rare and
extreme.
However, The Anuad, which is far older, says that Tsaesci
share the same racial origins as human races and are, in fact, a
sub-species of human; being serpent-men.
--------------------
Dean of The
Theoretical Whirling School Of Vivec
The Whirling School | Academy for Dwemer Studies | TES Lore FAQ
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Fascinating
... especially the MK/Xan transscript. Too bad MK left the devs team
...
Might
the interbred humans have asian features as well? That would give
any asian-looking race a decent, fully lore compatible background,
and allow to use asian people even in lore based mods (hint hint,
Nazz ).
Also, didn't notes on racial phylogeny (or soem other book) say
something about some Cyrodiili noble families "proudly displaying"
their akaviri ancestry, in preserving customs and clothes as well as
their Akaviri features?
Also, if the Tsaeci are descended
from the same origins as men are, they might be somewhat like
snake-ish Argonians, who more or less are "compatible" to humans, if
the human goes to an effort that is (*cough* ... Crassius Curio's play *cough*). It can be presumed
that the same would be true for Akaviri, even if I imagine them
legless, like a Naga ... Also, tghe Argonians are descended from men
too, and were changed by the Hist (the other ancient race that was
stranded on Nirn) into the weird lizard people of today.
--------------------
The worst thing about telepathy is
to find out that most people really have no thoughts of their own
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| lochnarus |
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I see that I'm
sitting at the kiddie table here, so goodbye and good luck.
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| Adoni |
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| Reged: 05/01/04 |
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| Loc: The Plains Akavir, valliantly fighting
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so this MK
dude worked with Bethesda? then there we have it Akavir is the
Orient. that is so damn cool. I'm half-Japanese myself, and also
collect Oriental weaponry, (mostly katana and tantos) and I study
Japanese history for quite some time. I love Akavir even more now. I
say someone make a nice Akavir mod, now that we know it's Asian. I'd
do it, but I have no skill in that kinda thing?
Anyone wanna
tak this up? Perhaps the geniuses who created Sea of Destiny? 
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| Xanathar |
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Quote:
MK does actually say quite clearly there that the Akaviri
humans are all dead. He also makes it clear that, although Akavir
is influenced by real world oriental cultures, it is as much a
fantasy creation as any other part of TES, so it doesn't follow
that what is true of Asia will be true of Akavir in all
cases.
Yeah, that's true. I think I
have to say if they were still exist they "might" have
oriental faces, anything is possible. As I said in the earlier post,
no record states them exist and have that oriental faces. No need
slapping down anyone, modders have their own creativities and
assumptions to the ES lore.
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~Xayah
Ayem Neht
Librarian at The
Imperial Library
Member of The
Forum Scholars Guild
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Quote:
Quote:
We're also told that Akaviri have bred with Cyrodils, IIRC.
A case might be made of Akaviri having asian features. Whether
or not they're human...
Quite reasonable points
Niobe.
As I see this, the logical assumption is that
Cyrodiils and Tsaesci interbred during the interregnum. I can
recall two texts that have a bearing on the interbreeding between
these two races.
The first, Notes on Racial Phylogeny and Biology, appears
to suggest that the biology of Tsaesci is incompatable with humans
and interbreeding between Tsaesci and homonid races would be rare
and extreme.
However, The Anuad, which is far older, says that Tsaesci
share the same racial origins as human races and are, in fact, a
sub-species of human; being serpent-men.
...beside PGE says "...and there are trace facial features
of the Akaviri in many distinguished Cyrodilic
families."
Snake-like men? *shrug*
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~Xayah Ayem Neht
Librarian at The
Imperial Library
Member of The
Forum Scholars Guild
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| zingbat |
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Any ideia why
are they called vampires or snakes ? Do they look like snakes or
have to feed on blood to live
?
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Best idea I have. We is
exchange the many dirty joke and then too much the laughing
activity.
-- Veloxi
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"They are
tall, beautiful (if frightening), covered in golden scales, and
immortal. They enslave the goblins of the surrounding isles, who
provide labor and fresh blood." Mysterious Akavir
That's why
they're called vamps, yes it appears that they drink blood, and
since it clearly states in the beggining that they are "The
serpent-folk" I guess they look like snakes.
The problem was
with the main ideea people have when thinking of Akaviri.
mOrGaNa
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| Illtempered |
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I'm trying to
get a mod started that's based on the assumption that Molag Bal
created the Tsaesci(how is this pronounced btw?) I can't remember
which book states he spawned the first vampire from the corpse of a
dead foe. My next poetically licensed assumption is that the Tsaesci
started the strain of vampiric humans. Lore states that they were
skilled sailors and that they raided Iliac bay on a regular basis.
Iliac bay is also where the many different vampire clans are. There
are only three in Morrowind. I'm also thinking a very cool end to
the quest might be the chance to destroy the first vampire,
hence ending vampirism.
I realize this is ambitious, but I
have lots of free time. Now, if someone could just do all the hard
work and model/animate a snake-man for me =P
To all who
can't think outside the box, remember, this lore is just being
developed by some guys sitting around at Bethesda, some of which are
not there anymore. It's not like LOTR where everything is laid out
perfectly, beautifully, and in no need of change, by a master poet
and author, in complete tyranical control of his own world.
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Devil's Rock for Vivec's Soul
Screenshots
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Speaking of
the Tsaesci and the *erhem* activities the Daedra. Here's something
interesting posted long ago.
Kier-jo:
"The
Worshippers of the Unnamed Lord, know as 'Argonians' on Nirni, are
the Descendents of Boethiah and the Serpent-men." *
*The
quotation marks were present at the time of the original
posting.
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"There’s man all
over for you, blaming on his boots the faults of his feet."
-Vladimir, in Waiting for Godot
Fellow of The Theoretical Whirling School Of
Vivec | Mnemoli's Gate
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| zingbat |
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That was cool.
I must read the Mysterious Akavir. So if those guys are tall then
they must have legs and not some sort of half
body-tail.
Again the devs have planted another mistery. The
snake-man ate all humans but didnt want to enslave them instead like
they did with the goblins ? Humans taste worse ?
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Best
idea I have. We is exchange the many dirty joke and then too much
the laughing activity.
-- Veloxi
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| Nazz |
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From 2920 in
reference to Savirien-Charok:
"...a glistening ivory-yellow
eel, gripping his katana and wakizashi with his thin, deceptively
weak looking arms....His swords seemed to be a part of him, a tail
coming from his arms to match the one behind him. It was a trick of
counterbalance, allowing the young serpent man to roll up into a
circle and spin into the center of the ring in offensive position.
The Prince had to plod forward the less impressive traditional
way."
The comments about him beeing an "eel" and that rolling
trick make me think they don't have legs. But then again who knows,
except the devs  .
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The 4th of First Seed - Dusk and
Dusk
Keeper of the Gate to Oblivion
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| Xanathar |
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* The
librarian comes and he casts Summon Tedders
OOC: Let's hope
this summon worked.
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~Xayah Ayem Neht
Librarian at The Imperial Library
Member of The
Forum Scholars Guild
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I never saw
a Tsaesci
I never hope to see one,
But I can tell you this
right now:
I'd rather see than be one.
Carlovac
Townway, the author of 2920, though quite a scholar, never saw a
Tsaeci or any other Akavari (of which there are many, as has been
noted) either. He attempted to write a historically accurate piece
of fiction. I'd compare him and Waughin Jarth and a few other
Tamrielic authors to writers like Sharon Kay Penman, who write
meticulously researched historical fiction. Everything is true, but
there's plenty of dramatic license, and, in this case, he hedged his
bets with his description of the Potentates.
To the people
of Tamriel during the interregnum, the Potentates were snakes. But,
it must be reasoned, they knew how to use their native weaponry,
katanas and wakizashis and so on. Does that mean they must have had
at least arms to use them? Townway reasoned yes.
Are Akavari
Asians? Certainly not. Nirn is not earth, so there is no Tamriel =
Europe, Akavir = Asia, Yokuda = Africa, Pyandonea = Australia, or
any other direct comparisons.
That said, we, the developers
and ex-developers, who translate Tamrielic culture into a thing
understandable by Earth dwellers, often use familiar words and
concepts which carry with them some additional baggage. There are,
for example, in Tamriel, slightly curved, single edged swords which
are considered among the finest blades in existence. The easiest
word to use to describe this is "katana." As in all translations, it
conveys the essential meaning of the thing, but one shouldn't
confuse the makers of the katana with the Japanese any more than one
should assume that the origins of the Tamrielic claymore are
Scottish.
Of course, none of this is to say that mod-makers
shouldn't include Asian characters who are said to be from Akavir.
Is it "true" to the lore? No. Is it contradictory to the lore? No
again.
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| Xanathar |
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It worked...
it worked....
* dances like a fool....
* ... ... ...
*
... and he composes himself
Ahem.... nice explanation
Tedders. It clears most of the questions here. Thanks for
coming.
* the librarian
bows
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~Xayah Ayem Neht
Librarian at The Imperial Library
Member of The
Forum Scholars Guild
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| B |
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Nice trick,
Xan!
And thank you, Tedders, for the information. It's nice
to have little bits of info every now and then. It will hold us over
until we get the big stuff. That's why I like this forum. We can
discuss TES related material until the next game comes out.
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~B
Assistant Librarian at The Imperial
Library
Forum Scholars Guild | The Modern Adventurer
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Thanx,
Tedders! Was begining to think that "off the track" was too kind for
how the discusion was going. Again, thanx!
mOrGaNa
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Xan, on behalf
of Tamriel Rebuilt, and for the love of all Aedra and Daedra,
can you teach me that spell???
I
promise not to abuse it; after all powerful entities have to be
dealt with very carefully, especially those-who-create-worlds ...
(OOC: thanks a lot Tedders - as for any information you
provide us with)
- hermit -
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The worst thing about telepathy is
to find out that most people really have no thoughts of their own
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| Xanathar |
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Um, you know
that spell’s result is sporadic in nature. Sometime the spell works
sometime not, even sometime Sheogorath is summoned instead. We never
know. The spell itself is easy, just mention the magic word
“Tedders” in your question here, and if the daedra lord feels that
it is necessary to come and speak with us, he will come.
And
now shall we back to Akavir? That quote that said that Argonian is
descendant of Boethiah and Serpent-man is quite interested to be
discussed, no? As I recall it was posted here by Affamu, another
ex-dev now.
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~Xayah Ayem Neht
Librarian at The Imperial Library
Member of The
Forum Scholars Guild
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| Tedders |
| Curate |
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Are you
suggesting that the Great Tedders is a
troll? ... Well, maybe occasionally ...
Excuse while I return
to my perusal of the "Books Rule!" thread.
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| Xanathar |
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Not
a troll, but it seems to me that you have some scrying device that
inform you when someone use word "Tedders" in his post, and then you
shows up.
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~Xayah Ayem Neht
Librarian at The
Imperial Library
Member of The
Forum Scholars Guild
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of topic but I
must know: who are the devs? The guys from Bethesda?
does it
have something to do with bluedev?
mOrGaNa -- pleads for
quick answer and then the return of all involved to more up to the
point question.
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| Nazz |
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"Dev" is short
for developer.
In otherwords anyone who does or has worked
for Bethesda on one of the Elderscrolls games.
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The 4th of First Seed - Dusk and
Dusk
Keeper of the Gate to Oblivion
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| Adoni |
| Novice |
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| Loc: The Plains Akavir, valliantly fighting
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Tedders I
believe said that they would have just a FEW subtle Asian influences
since they are fantasy.
What about the Nords? Has anyone
noticed very little of them seems to be original? These dudes are
Vikings through and through. Every bit aboutthem is completely
Viking practically! Thier weapons, thier langauge, thier armour,
thier architecture, thier folklore, thier accent....
Thier
all Vikings! So why wouldnt the Akaviri have less then subtle Asian
influence?
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| Tedders |
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Quote:
Tedders I believe said that they would have just a FEW subtle
Asian influences since they are fantasy.
Did I say that? Doesn't sound
like me, thinking of subtleties. 
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| Ratwar |
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Quote:
What about the Nords? Has anyone noticed very little of them
seems to be original? These dudes are Vikings through and through.
Every bit aboutthem is completely Viking practically! Thier
weapons, thier langauge, thier armour, thier architecture, thier
folklore, thier accent....
Nords are Vikings... In fact
the word Nord is basically another word for Viking. If the Nords
weren't like Vikings it would be weird.
--------------------
Chris II- level 56 Breton
Other
asorted characters
*In remember's of my Characters Chris and
Will who both died at the hands of the evil hard drive crash*
I'm on a quest to prove that at least one moderator is
really a Homicidal maniac. Any information on this subject is
welcome by PM.
adiuvo novus populus
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| Adoni |
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| Loc: The Plains Akavir, valliantly fighting
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Exactly.
So why not the Akaviri? Having a hodgepodge of Chinese and
Japanese with a little bit of fantasy would make sense for them.
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| Xanathar |
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As I said
before, Bethesda Softwork has not specify clearly and officially
that the Akaviri men, if they exist, have (or have not) asian face,
so why we have to fight over this issue? This is pointless for
me.
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~Xayah Ayem Neht
Librarian at The Imperial Library
Member of The
Forum Scholars Guild
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| Adoni |
| Novice |
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| Reged: 05/01/04 |
| Posts: 36 |
| Loc: The Plains Akavir, valliantly fighting
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so if some
rediculously awesome modder decides to do an Akaviri project, he'll
do it right
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If they live
in Cyrodiil, and are usually part of the upper class (men with
"akaviri features", that is), it would be really important to know
for mods such as Tamriel Rebuilt.
Oh, Tsaesci would be in
order then, too ... there were so many around in the second era, and
with them being vampiric, it's realistic to assume there still are
some of them alive. Right?
*casts a summon tedders spell*
- hermit -
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The worst thing
about telepathy is to find out that most people really have no
thoughts of their own
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| Tedders |
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"Hello, and
thank you for summoning Tedders. He's not at home right now
..."
Is it reasonable to assume there might be a few Tsaesci
slithering around Tamriel hither and yon? There are certainly
stranger things ...
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